Mr. Friese, EVERY employee has given to Saline Area Schools, the teachers are just late to the party. I know this will be an unpopular comment, but they could have made some "adjustments" years ago and not come to this "cliff" year like EVERY other employee. My only hope is every other employee can not have to take any more cuts and keep what they have. Your unabashed liberal ranting against Lansing (Republicans) is getting tiresome, since you have provided no solutions to any problem, except for supporting more tax and spend policies. Maybe that works for you and your family, but many of us tax payers are tired of it.

@John Carter,

You are darn right it works for D Friese and his wife because they are both retired public school teachers that have combined pension income well over 50K for life and health care for life plus they collect social security on top of that. Most likely earning over 100 K income in retirement, not a bad life at all. They have every interest in maintaining the status quo of us paying their largesse and they live in a different universe than you and I and the rest of the world. They simply cannot believe that the taxpayers are tired of this nonsense. Many of us with college degrees and advanced degrees have gone multiple years without a raise, out of pocket healthcare costs have quadrupled and our homes are worth half of what they were worth 7 years ago Despite what D Friese states, this is not a liberal versus conservative issue. It is COMMON sense, does D Friese know what is going on over in Greece by chance , does he care what is going on in Greece. No, he cares only about himself and keeping what he feels entilted too.

Well said Salinity

Property values hold? I have lost over $300,000 and wiped out any potential of retirement by investing in Saline property. Country Market closed. Little Ceasars Closed. Sun Engineering, closed. Reason... taxes too high! No growth in Saline accept for resale shops for the poor. If you want to see real economic growth, investment and rising property values...lower the taxes. The best way to attract business and residents is to lower taxes! Just as people search-out the cheapest gas prices, they search-out the safest, lowest cost place to live. Lower taxes will result in more demand and higher property value. It is plane common sense.

PeterT…we’ve been down this road before…it is not nervy…it is realism. Every person in this district knew this would be the outcome. The predicted cliff year came. Over the last 4 years smaller SEA cuts (healthcare, stipends, etc), would have blunted the cliff, but SEA leadership refused. And if you’d read carefully before you blog, you’d realize I’m not on the “hate teacher train”. I fully supported the mileage both times, since none of the money would have gone to salary and benefits, but sorely need infrastructure.

Well Mr. Friese, you finally got it correct…”the common green”, as in “green-backs” , or did you mean the “common greed”? We all know you meant the “common good”, but “green” works better in this instance. The simple truth is that if the SEA had taken steps to secure less expensive health insurance with no loss in benefits (non-MEA MESSA insurance) for at least the last four years and maybe even given up the step raises, or given up additional stipends we would have never come to this cliff moment. It would have been more of a great dip in the road. By the way….every other employee in the district except the SEA took these kinds of hits over the last 4 years. True, the SEA gave “1.5 million" (because Peter T. will bring this up again), but they also took step raises and an overall raise last year. What is sad and laughable after spending all that money, today, a typical study released - The Science and Engineering Readiness Index (SERI), Michigan ranks 26th in Math and Science. Although I would suspect Saline students might be above the average. It is indicative of the results of US students and others worldwide, we are lagging way behind. I fully supported the last two bond votes, since none of the money would have gone to salary and benefits, but sorely need infrastructure. I am a realist,not the right winger you think. And that realism is that changes are necessary to move forward, with new methods and (hopefully) better results.

Hey HornetMom who's fault is it then? Is it the fault of the Elementary teachers that spend there $79 dollar budget for the year. Yeah that's right these teachers ONLY get $79 dollars to spend on supplies the ENTIRE year. Is it the fault of the Middle School teachers who had to stop making copies in APRIL and had to go to Office Depot to make there copies, Oh and pay for it out of there own pockets. Is it the fault of the High School teachers who were given 25 text books and had to teach 42 students slammed in a room for 30. Who's fault is it HornetMom? The teachers have now given back 9 million dollars to save your School system over the past 2 years. Why does the staff have to Pay to teach. The city of Saline had there chance to give back to there schools but you (HornetMom) said screw you Schools. Who's FAULT is it HornetMom? Who took more money away from each schools for the past 3 years? Hey I know this one, Lansing! Who is making the school districts pay more for pension cost because the Government ROBBED the teachers pension funds back in 2000 to balance the State budget. Hey I know this one too, Lansing! The teachers had enough to be just fine and Lansing took it and now instead of giving it back they are just asking for more. WHO'S FAULT IS IT HornetMom? Show some facts, do some reading, before you write another post. Your wasting everyone's time!!!!!!!!

MSU - As I said, "We are grateful for the teachers in this great district and the job they do every single day and are especially grateful for the sacrifices they made today. "

You asked me who's fault it is? In my opinion, it is the union's fault. To expect the taxpayers to foot the bill for UNSUSTAINABLE health and retirement benefits that they, themselves no longer have is unreasonable. The school districts are in the exact same spot as the auto companies — UNSUSTAINABLE benefits expected to be paid for by others.

We MUST live within our means or there are consequences. At what point will the consequences be dire enough to do things differently?

So HornetMom if the school didn't have a union how would of that made it better. People need to get paid for a job. The UNION did not ask for more money, the UNION did not increase the amount of money to the State takes for pensions, the UNION did not reduce the amount the State gives to the schools, the UNION did nothing but give back. Your so blinded by the word UNION. The school system UNION is only there to put a contract in place. Teachers over the past 3 years have not taken a raise have gave back MILLIONS of dollars and have now they have taken a 15% pay cut. Why is the UNION at fault. Now I ask you again WHO'S FAULT IS IT? Put some thought into this and not just what your parents told you. Come with some facts so I can understand if your just typing what Stupid Scooby and Dumb Sal type or you really have some proof.

MSU - It's impossible to win a war of wisdom with someone so ill equipped as yourself so I'm going to go on my way now. We have two small businesses we own in this community and I need to focus on that, not on reading your diatribe of personal attack and silliness. Good day.

P.S. You seem like a really angry person. Hope your day gets better.

@MSU .... could you explain this statement ..."Teachers over the past 3 years have not taken a raise have gave back MILLIONS of dollars and have now they have taken a 15% pay cut." I hope you meant all teachers in general...because if you meant Saline teachers....this statement is simply not true except for the 15% cut for the new contract.

HornetMom, thank you for your concern but I am not angry at all. I just hate it when people jump on a band wagon and type garbage with no proof to back it up. I get it you hate UNIONS, so anybody affiliated with a UNION you must hate equally. Wow sounds like a hateful world you live in. It is real easy to sit at a computer to bash people but if you have these concerns I hope you show up at a board meeting and tell the teachers to there face how MAD you are that there UNIONS and how it is destroying the school system. I hope your businesses are doing well and keep growing in Saline. But please stop posting on something you have no idea what your talking about. Good Day :)

Taxation is the forced taking of money from people by the government and the governments redistribution of that money. If the money was not "taken" from people, people would still spend that money into the economy in the ways that they saw that would best benefit themselves and their families. You are certainly free to voluntarily contribute to anyone in any way that you wish, but don't come to my door with your government tax collector to take my money and spend it as you see fit. That is theft!. You can freely donate to schools or educational foundations if you wish. You can personally help the poorer in the community get an education. Libraries where originally instituted voluntarily by private organizations to spread knowledge. Benjamin Franklin was one of the first donators and founders of a public library. With Independence day so close try reading the Declaration of Independence. It is written at a much higher level than even most of today's students can comprehend. The average Farmer of the 18th century was better educated by today's standards. Google Kahn Acadamy, learn that once a person can read, the world of knowledge is open to him or her for free. All the courses at MIT are now available online for free. Knowledge abounds in the free world and you are free to spread knowledge and your money any way you see fit. Just don't come demanding my money under the treat of taking my home or going to jail. I may have other priorities, like caring for an elderly mother!

Personally, myself and many others like me could use the tax break to make up for the giant losses from the big property bubble ponzi scheme or the higher gas prices or the higher food prices. If you don't need your $50.00, why don't you just donate it to the Saline Schools Foundation?.. but don't force your ideas and your desires on your less fortunate neighbors. Our country was formed as a Republic, not a Democracy, just for this reason of not being subject to the tyranny of the majority. We don't live in a country where two wolves and one sheep decide what's for lunch. The property and lives of the minority must be protected, otherwise ten of your neighbors could decide that they want your property and would even give you a vote! Stated differently...51% of the people can not be allowed to vote to take the property of the other 49%. That is mob rule, that is tyranny of the majority that is not to be allowed in a Republic. Democracy always fails, it did in Greece, it did in Rome and in a host of other regimes. Since you are public school educated...did you know that the word "Democracy" is no where to be found in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution or the Constitutions of the 50 states? Did you know that? If you didn't know that, ask yourself why you didn't. Could it be that the government institution that educated you, didn't want you to know that?

Teachers and staff in Saline are terrific. Citizens, Parents and tax payers in Saline are also terrific. These are some of the most generous, involved people in the country. Good teachers/people will understand that times have changed, the economy has changed, the student population has changed and so now is the time to accept the fact that teaching and staff jobs will have to be paid less. Because there is less money and less wealth in the community to pay for education. That is just the reality. When I was a kid, teachers did have two jobs. In fact many teacher painted houses during the summer months. Nothing wrong with going back to that. We must all make sacrifices in society. The compensation and the rate of increase was just no longer sustainable.

Do you want me to post the w2s for all the Teachers in the Saline Schools? Making $80,000 + per year for working 180 days is a very good pay. Half of that would be good and people would kill for that kind of job in today's economy. In the real world, most people have not gotten raises for years. Many of us are already facing the sacrifice of lost retirement, lost investment, lost dreams. Most people can't afford a retirement let alone get the type of benefits that the teachers get in retirement. We have already made the sacrifices, now the teachers are just playing catch-up. Government jobs where never meant to be high paying. These are public servants. There has been a huge shift in wages from the private sector to the public sector. The area around Washington D.C has the highest income per capita of any area in the country. These are mostly government workers that make extremely high incomes now. Government is not supposed to take (tax) from the people and enrich themselves. This is backwards. Yes the teachers are good people, yes they have a right to a decent wage, but it has gotten too out of hand. There is a paradigm shift now, the educated teachers should know that. Demographics have changed. Less young and more elderly that will require more resources. This is just the reality!

Sal, I would prefer to see your tax returns and business sales receipts. What is your true income and not what is reported after tax deductions as job creator or creative accounting offsets. How much more are you worth than a teacher who you feel is so overpaid.

Hi John, actually whether teachers make concessions or not will not affect your tax bill. That 6 mill levy for homesteads will continue on its route to Lansing.

Extra cash for food, blankets, a more comfortable bed (lots of people in the area don't actually have a bed to sleep on but instead are sleeping on the floor, couch or recliner because they can't afford one). Yes, in fact there may be some things more important than having a state of the art weight lifting room or an Olympic swimming pool that has a floor that raises up and down for your dear child. It is a matter of priorities. If you personally have all your necessitates met, and you don't need of anything...why don't you take your tax savings and donate it to the schools voluntarily. Nobody is stopping you from helping the schools. Just don't use the government force to come and rob me of my money, because I may have something better to use my money on, I may have different priorities.

I don't know why you would want to make my arguments personal? Asking to see my financials seems like a red herring argument to me. If I did show you my personal financial statements and you dissected them to your satisfaction and then compared them to the average Saline School Teacher... and you found that the teacher was better off, would I win the argument? Let me know if a comparison would satisfy you of my point and would you concede to my argument. My argument restated is...it is wrong to use government force to confiscate my money to hand it over to government run public education. Especially when the mission of public education was to provide a basic education to a minority in our society that where too poor to afford a private education. What we have now in Saline, is a state of the art public education that chokes out private competition and subsidizes the wealthier residence of Saline by allowing them to avoid paying for their children's education in the private sector. If the more well off folks among us would pay for the true costs of their children's education you would see fewer McMansions and luxury cars in Saline as people would have to live within their means.

I believe the education of the children of Saline is the best investment for the citizens of Saline. The schools have provided a tremendous return on our investment. I believe in helping all children and some individuals just want to help themself. I agree that our priorities are different. My number one priority is the education of our children and will work for candidates this November who feel the same. I know you will be dedicated to your personal priorities.

You may believe that the best investment for Saline is education. Problem is, you don't have any supporting evidence of the benefits. Majority of the Kids leave the area. Saline is in deep financial trouble. All property values continue to slide downwards and business continue to close. So I fail to see the payback in the investment.

Nobody sits on billions unless it's tucked under a mattress. Even if that where the case, if that money was kept out of circulation, it would increase the value of the money that was left in circulation in the economy. That is supply side economics. The oligarchs billions that you refer to are more likely saved in a bank and available to a creditworthy borrowers to finance a new business or advance a promising new discovery or idea, or buy a house or car. Private security instead of police does exist and works well. Fire departments where originally run by insurance companies and not the government. Each building would have a symbol on the front of it that represented the particular insurance company that secured it. The insurance companies own fire department would come to the rescue. America went many years with this system and it worked. It may be hard to believe but there could be greater priorities in some peoples lives than education. For example a person that had to care for elderly parents may place a greater value on their care rather than children's education. True that there is not a lot of investing going on now, but that is a factor of the uncertainty in the economy. People with capital are not going to invest if their investments may be threatened. In Venezuela, Pres. Chavez confiscated all the large private businesses, gas, oil, utilities, etc. Now who would invest in Venezuela knowing that your investment could be taken at a whim of a Dictator.

Oh, you got me. You have won the argument against private security because of a company called Black Water. I know that the government only employs angels and there have never been any missteps by government police, military, TSA, IRS or any other government agency. The truth is...people are people no matter who or where they work. A government paycheck does not convey some magical power on people to make them perfect. Not as far as I have heard. There are good and bad in both the private and public sector. Government employment is not utopia.

Yes I have and you can usually find me with a copy in my pocket. I have also read the preamble to the Declaration of Independence. I especially like this line...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

The purpose of Government is to secure life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Seems limited to me. I would like government to secure my liberty to spend my money so I can pursue my happiness as I see fit.

I would question your belief that the government can be more efficient than the private sector. This in my opinion if false and the facts would support me. Because government has the monopoly power of force and it can take what it wants from the people, it has no incentive to be cost efficient. State wide, public schools get about the same amount of money per pupil, yet some school district outcomes are horrendous. Money then is not the only answer. Generally, private schools cost less than public and have better outcomes than public schools. Free market competition always produces the most at the least cost. You can look at the old Soviet Union for an example of your belief that Government control can serve the private good more efficiently. That is the extreme example of your belief, total state control. It failed miserably. Our form of government limited the power of the government and left the people free to innovate. Clearly the constitution was written to limit (constrain) government and free the people. In a free society, nothing limits you from contributing to free schools. Governments fail (as they did in Rome) when the majority of people use the power of the government to elect politicians to give them free stuff. To take money from some and redistribute it to others. This is tyranny of the majority.

Mr. Waterman, your stated goal is to elect politicians that will use government power to tax (take) money from some and use it to expand public education. Indeed you may have or know some folks that have earned their livings from this "taking". The constitution does not grant the people any rights. It states that all rights come from a creator and can not be taken away (unalienable) by government. The right to speak, to love, to earn a living, to mary, to have children, etc.We give some of our rights to the government to keep us safe, protect our life and property etc. so we can pursue our own brand of happiness as long as we do not infringe on the rights of others. You do not posses the right to go to your neighbor and take his or her money to educate your child even if you think it is important to you. Likewise, you can not confer to government a right that you do not posses (consent of the governed) to take money from your neighbor on your behalf. Government is not run by angles. Eventually it becomes corrupt. The idea of the founders was to keep government limited so corruption was minimized. Saline Schools may not be corrupt, but other schools that operate under your principles are terribly corrupted (Detroit etc.) Your ideas of bigger government do not work in a sustainable way. The United State was the first experiment in freedom, and it was a huge success. Lets not march back to Statisim or Fascism (private ownership with government control) Happy Independence Day!

Wow. Education could be indoctrination too! Here's a quote for you!
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." George Washington

www.khanacademy.org Free education for all! Without extortion! That is real liberty!